39: Marques Ogden
“And instead of trying to be that player I knew I could be for the Jaguars, I asked him to let me go.”
About Marques
Marques Ogden is a former NFL player turned inspirational keynote speaker. He's also the founder and CEO of Ogden Ventures LLC, best-selling author, business coach and consultant and the podcast host of Authenticity With Marques Ogden; although his journey didn't come easy or without unrelenting adversity.
After retiring from football, Marques pursued a career in construction and contracting. At 27, he founded a construction company with fast growth but eventually went bankrupt, losing almost two million dollars on one project in 90 days. He pulled himself together during his darkest hours and got a part-time job as a custodian.
Marques rose to the top again with hard work and determination, using his struggles as inspiration to blaze his own trail forward. Now, through his podcast and speaking engagements with companies like Amazon, Goldman Sachs, Intel, JPMorgan Chase and Home Depot, he shares his powerful story to help others learn how to fail forward and achieve success in their lives.
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Max Chopovsky: 0:02
This is Moral of the Story interesting people telling their favorite short stories and then breaking them down to understand what makes them so good. I'm your host, max Jepowsky. Today's guest is Marcus Agden, a former NFL player turned inspirational keynote speaker. He's also the founder and CEO of Agden Ventures, bestselling author, business coach and consultant and the podcast host of Authenticity with Marcus Agden. Although his journey didn't come easy or without unrelenting adversity, after retiring from football, marcus pursued a career in construction and contracting. At 27, he founded a construction company with Fast Growth but eventually went bankrupt, losing almost $2 million on one project in 90 days. He pulled himself together during his darkest hours and got a part-time job as a custodian. He rose to the top again with hard work and determination, using his struggles as inspiration to place his own trail forward. Now, through his podcast and speaking engagements with companies like Amazon, goldman Sachs, intel, JP Morgan Chase and Home Depot, he shares his powerful story to help others learn how to fail forward and achieve success in their lives. Marcus, welcome to the show, brother. How you doing, max? Thanks for having me on, sir. All right, all right, so you're here to tell us a story Before we get into it? Set the stage. Is there anything we need to know before you start?
Marques Ogden: 1:25
No, just you can ask me anything you want, so I'm an open book.
Max Chopovsky: 1:29
All right, man, let's do it. Well, tell me a story.
Marques Ogden: 1:33
So I remember playing for the Jacksonville Jack Wars. I was going to my second year and I was doing well and I was very much moving up the chart and things were going fantastic with my coach and my team. But we drafted a kid in the fifth round Really good guy. I named Sean to play tackle and what happened was when I was going through my second training camp, for some reason I did not do well when I saw the people coming in behind me, younger than me, going after the same position I was trying to do and play and I just couldn't really register how to really engage people and really kind of move the needle, kind of help a younger team. I always did it. So, to back up my mind, I was kind of, oh, this guy wants my job, what do I do? But I just kept pushing through it and kept helping. But I remember really having a hard time connecting with my old line coach, paul Boudreau, and he was amazing, but it was all my fault. I was a young man, 23 years old. I really didn't learn how to communicate and say what I need to say. Where I could hear him, he could hear me. And instead of trying to work through it instead of trying to really continue to move forward and really push to be that player I knew I could have been for the Jaguars. I asked him to let me go and I got signed to the Balls of Laureate and thinking back on that, I really wish I would have been more forthcoming with my coach, expressed how I was feeling, asked him how was I doing? Was I working hard? Was I working smart? Was I working well? You know, I was moving the left tackle, which was harder for me because I played it, but I was more used to being right tackle. So when I moved to left, I kind of go. I said I don't like this. I got to work my way up again. It was frustrating but in reality, looking at it today, I was really frustrated. Getting moved to that position only my second year as a young player was more of an honor than anything else. But because I was so short-sighted, I was so fixated on what I wanted, I was so just like damn, let me know, let me play what I want to play, don't put me where I don't really want to be. I ended up literally pushing away not just a great organization but a great coach in Paul Boudreaux, and I saw Coach Boudreaux at the NFL con, probably about 2016 or 17. I think he was with the Rams at that time and I told him. I said, coach, I apologize, I'm really sorry that I didn't communicate better with you. It was all my fault. It wasn't your job to fix me. It was my job to go to you and ask you how to be better, how to be more athletic, how to be more keen to my position, how to be a lot more astute and aware around movement and technique and all these things. And so I tell young players all the time don't shy away from conflict or having conversations with your coach. Okay, I know you may not want to do it, it may not be comfortable, it may not be something you want to really experience, but, trust me, it's something that you need to do, because if I would have done that with the Jaguars, I'd probably have had a long career with just them, because I was able to go to that position, take my bumps, take my bruises, learn and then a sit up the ladder. But because I was so short-sighted, I was so fixated on what I wanted, I didn't do myself justice and I wish I could take that back. That's probably the only thing I wish I could take back from my time at the National Football League, going into my second year training camp, being a better communicator with my O-line coach, Paul Boudreaux.
Max Chopovsky: 5:08
How did it feel to go to him and ask him to let you go?
Marques Ogden: 5:14
I didn't go to him. I went to my agent, who then went to my person in the front office, knew me and they let me go for me. I didn't even talk to him, and that's something else I regret, which I would have gone to him and had a conversation. He probably said Marcus, you're doing really well, Stop panicking, Stop worrying about it, as you're a second-year tackle. It takes time to learn this position. It takes time to learn this game. Don't be impatient, Don't be imprudent. So a third of the other things I could take back is going to actually ask him for breakdown on how I was doing play the position.
Max Chopovsky: 5:49
Yeah, that's so interesting because you feel like you want to play the position that you're good at and then you get put in another position and you just say to yourself this isn't what I want to do and it feels alien to play that other position. But at the time it sounds like you didn't realize that they were doing that because they saw potential in you.
Marques Ogden: 6:12
Correct, absolutely. They saw something more in me than I saw it myself at the time and that's why I regret asking the Jaguar to let me go, because I really could develop nicely under Paul Boudreau, jack DeRio, james Jack Harris, the Weaver family. It was a great place, great organization, nothing but positive things to say about the Jaguars on my platform, great team. My problem was me me myself and that was the culprit that caused me a really potentially great relationship with the Jacksonville Jaguars.
Max Chopovsky: 6:49
I mean it shows maturity to be able to admit that to yourself.
Marques Ogden: 6:53
It's the only way. It's the only way to actually move forward in life. Make a mistake, own it, fix it and move on, that's right.
Max Chopovsky: 7:02
What did he say to you when you told him that you were sorry?
Marques Ogden: 7:06
Oh, he was very sincere, he openly, with open arms. And, marcus, look, I understand, you were a young man. As we grow older, we learn how to be more mature, how to have conversations, how to have conflict, how to look for resolve, and I'm proud of you for expressing that to me. To me, you were really a great talent. I just don't know what happened. I said well, coach, it was because I was frustrated and I was young and I was stupid. I didn't do a good job of asking you how to get better. My ego got in my own way, yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 7:37
As you think about that story. What is the moral of that story for you?
Marques Ogden: 7:41
The moral of the story, Matt, is just go and communicate with people and ask them for their feedback and then buy it. Don't be afraid to have the hard conversations. Hard conversations create champions.
Max Chopovsky: 7:56
It's true, it's true. Why do you choose that story to tell?
Marques Ogden: 8:01
Because it's what I know we talk a lot about. I don't really share it with a lot of people my NFL brothers, they know it. But I've never shared it on a podcast before because I just kind of was embarrassed that I asked me to let go because I was just so set with where I was being moved to play. It's so ridiculous that you think like that at that age. But now I want to share it. I want younger people to understand that if you had that come up in life, for God's sake, just go open your mouth, open your ears and really come to some type of resolve.
Max Chopovsky: 8:34
Your communication is generally better than under communication. Every day, all day, all day Were your teammates surprised when they learned that you were getting let go.
Marques Ogden: 8:45
Oh yeah, absolutely they were, and I really had the old line with great man Maurice Williams, brad Meester, chris DeOly, Vince Manowai, mike Pearson All those guys were great. We had Daryl Terrell, we had Samuel. We had some great guys. So I missed them when I left. I'm not a great person with the Ravens too, so that's not a bad thing. But then it's interesting my old line coach with Baltimore got let go and a new line coach came in in Baltimore. So that's the risk you take in sports you never know if your coach is going to be there the next year. It's a very cyclical, high-term ratio, especially if you're not away. So my teammates were surprised and I could have handled it so much better going forward.
Max Chopovsky: 9:26
Yeah, it's tough when you're young. You don't make a lot of mistakes and at the time they feel like massive, massive mistakes. But looking back on it, you think to yourself I had to make those mistakes, there was actually no other way. That would have stuck with me If somebody said to you hey, marcus, you got to open your mouth, you got to communicate, man, and if you don't communicate well enough, some pretty important stuff's going to fall through the cracks and you would have been like whatever. But now that you had to learn that lesson the hard way, now it's something that you preach yourself.
Marques Ogden: 10:04
All day I tell athletes you're better off to get people to know how you feel than them potentially knowing how you feel. So a huge factor I live with going forward.
Max Chopovsky: 10:17
By the way, also a great tip for marriage, yep.
Marques Ogden: 10:21
Oh yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. It is. It's a full disclosure. I am divorced, I went through, we finalized November of this year, so that's that, and so, at the end of the day, for me it's all about helping people move to that next level. But yeah, communication works great in everything Marriage, personal life, business life. It works well everywhere, totally totally Now.
Max Chopovsky: 10:48
having come from the professional sports world, but also having been in the speaking world and as a host of a podcast, you've heard some amazing stories. What do you think these great stories have in common?
Marques Ogden: 11:05
They all have a common theme of being real and being vulnerable and not looking for people to accept the good, or, you know, if it's perfect. To me, great stories are authentic, vulnerable and real. That's why I wanted to share this one, because I'm always real and authentic with my stories. But, like I said, this is something I haven't really talked a lot about and I want people to understand that this is something that I couldn't avoid it with proper action and judgment and this being a lot more astute versus just trying to say hey, here I am, you know we'll be around because I'm not happy with it. So you know, great storytellers are authentic, vulnerable and real.
Max Chopovsky: 11:43
Yep, Yep. Now what about a good storyteller? What makes for a good storyteller?
Marques Ogden: 11:48
Somebody that is three things has great stage presence, can engage their audience and can educate their audience. Do you want to be a great speaker, a great storyteller? You know activate the stage, engage your audience and educate them on something they didn't know before you started speaking. So when they leave after your talk, they learn something new to apply in their lives. When you do those three things as a speaker or a storyteller, you can and you will be great.
Max Chopovsky: 12:18
Now, how do you use storytelling in your personal life?
Marques Ogden: 12:21
I tell stories all the time. I mean, one of my favorite people is Aristotle and one of the four things he says is the key to a great leader or great, successful person is metaphors. So people that for me, I'm always telling stories about football business, my stale business, my rock bottom moment. You know me being divorced now struggling, you know, living in a partner for seven and a half months and being in a dark, gloomy place in this hating life. And now I'm in my brand new home that I bought, you know, two months ago, and blessed and fortunate, and the podcast is growing and things are happening. And I just found out today, literally today the house that I have with my daughter's mom I asked it just is now under contract. We put on the. We put on the market Friday of last week and you got the contract in six days. So we're so excited that you can get that money. We won't with my life and all these things, but I'm big in telling stories to people because if people really get encapsulated by your stories, then at that time it's all about you having home to them, why they need to work with you.
Max Chopovsky: 13:27
You mentioned that education educating your audience on something is one of the three things that would make you a successful storyteller. But I want to know do you feel like every story has to have a moral, and if it doesn't, is it still a good story?
Marques Ogden: 13:43
I feel every story has a moral. I mean, every story you tell has a moral. Like you know, learn from your mistakes. Don't do this, don't do that, try this more. The moral may not be as life-changing, as you know, don't quit when you're under extreme pressure. Don't give up when things are going your way. It could be like, you know, hey man, next time, instead of turn left, turn right, hey man, next time, next time, standing up, sit down. I mean it could be that simple. Every story has a moral, because if you tell a story, it's all about them trying to teach somebody. So I can tell you, I'll start with another. Tell one of my classes, say, one of my favorite movies is Rocky. I can watch Rocky III Train Log. I can watch Rocky II. I can watch this. I can watch yeah, I can watch anything of Rocky, and the moral of the story is just by saying that I tell you by the moral story, I love the underdog. I mean it's that simple. I mean I have to be this drug out. She was like, you know, earth shattering, mind blowing. You know, moral, I didn't have to be all. But I always tell it by yep, you know, I love Rocky, because what's the moral? I love the underdog, so every story has a moral. The thing is, it just may not be as huge of a moral as other morals may turn out to be. That's all.
Max Chopovsky: 14:51
I agree with that, I agree with that perspective. I think that it might not be an earth shattering moral, but every story has something to teach us, right? Because what's a good story? A good story has something that happens. Somebody changes, there's some sort of character arc, there's something at stake, and that transformation, there's a moral in there, somewhere Put it this way if every story didn't have something of importance, you can bet your bottom dog, you can bet your ass.
Marques Ogden: 15:20
Aristotle would not have had the one, his five pieces of success. There's no way a man of that intelligence you know okay how long ago it was is going to put storytelling in his top five to make him fight if they didn't have a lesson behind it. This is not going to happen 100%, 100%.
Max Chopovsky: 15:37
That's really really interesting. That's really interesting. So let me ask you this what advice would you give to those who want to learn the craft of storytelling?
Marques Ogden: 15:51
Learn how to tell your life in a condensed version, but, at the same time, be sure you're teaching someone something, right? Does it matter how big or small? If you want to be a great storyteller, you have to first own your own story, right? You can't be a storyteller if you don't own your own story. Like well, why else would I be sitting here? What is your story, you know? Why doesn't he right? So, like, when I started to own my story in speaking and pull it into what I was talking about or speaking on, life got so much better, so much more full, so much more rich. So, if you're listening to this great podcast, own your story to be a great storyteller.
Max Chopovsky: 16:32
Totally. Have you seen Arnold Schwarzenegger's documentary on Netflix? Yeah, I sure have. What a great story. That is, admittedly, very hard to condense, but he's lived a hell of a life and there's so many interesting morals in that story. I mean it's funny like, on one hand, his brother dies car accident, driving drunk, and shortly after that his dad dies and they ask him how it felt when his brother died. He was kind of estranged from his brother, right. But I'm watching the interview of him talking about it and I'm like he's got to start crying any minute now and he doesn't. And it just made me think, like man, this guy is heartless, like what the hell? And then he addresses that. He talks about how you just have to move forward. Am I maybe not processing some of these emotions? Maybe, but you just have to move forward. And as much as it sort of bothered me on one level that it didn't seem to impact him the other day, I know that it did, but he also knew that there was one way to move and that's forward. So to me it was an interesting moral that you have to keep moving forward regardless of what happens.
Marques Ogden: 17:50
You have to. Am I sad that I got divorced and I'm not living with my children every day my stepdaughter who's doing college and my nine-year-old yep, absolutely I am. But I got a move forward. I got to keep going every single day. Right, I didn't want this to happen, but it happened. And I can't sit around and that's what I was doing in my apartment. Right, I was sitting around my old, self-pity, the wallowing, or me, I don't have my daughter, this, this, I wish it was this and now I'm my home. I still miss my daughter and I work around me all the time, but because now I have a home that's my old and I'm building things and I can have things like, say, I have my own furniture now and I'm doing this and that, now I'm like, okay, I got to keep going for every day. Every day, that means it didn't hurt any less. I'm able to focus things on energy that's gonna drive me forward, like shopping for my house or Doing this or, you know, try to make sure I'm out taking care, right, to take care for the business. All these things Right, and as a result of that, my life has gotten better. But, same time, this is a hurt, the same, but I just had a focus on what I could control, and being in a better environment keeps me going for a better life take me back for a minute to the time when you went bankrupt after losing all that money on that construction project.
Max Chopovsky: 19:13
Those darkest hours, as you put them. Talk to me about that time and how you pulled yourself out of that man basically being a custodian for 8,000 12 us an hour, working in downtown Raleigh.
Marques Ogden: 19:27
I hit rock bottom when somebody trash rotten meat, nasty, protruding garbage cover my body, my skin and my clothes. And what got me out of that situation? When I realized at that time that I literally had no accountability, my own personal stuff, no responsibility I was, I was not being loyal toward taking care of anybody, nobody, including myself. And when I say I've got no accountability, I've got no responsibility, I need to change this now, where I'm going to be in this place forever. That's what I change. That's why I say that enough is enough. Stop wallowing, stop pitting yourself. What do you do? Well, what are your three strengths? Let's build off that. I started speaking in 2013, didn't get a paid job until April 2016 and now here we are.
Max Chopovsky: 20:22
Three years. You did it without making any money.
Marques Ogden: 20:25
To an ass. Not one-page job. From September 2013 to April 2016 not one-page speaking job. I got a bunch of free jobs but nothing paid. I kept working as a birthday clown, as a Private football trainer. I ran 7-7 camps, I made appearances, all these things just to make ends meet, to get myself in position. They were I'm at now. So I tell everybody, you know, once I own my mistakes, that's when life got better.
Max Chopovsky: 20:54
Do you remember the first paying speaking gig that you got?
Marques Ogden: 20:58
Yeah, of course. Miller Mott College, 2016 April in Wilmington, north Carolina, for their 100th commencement graduation speech is for their 100th commencement Graduation speech. I got paid $1,500 for that job and I was so happy to say, wow, maybe I can do this, maybe I can make money at this, and that was my first paid job ever. Did you ask them or did they offer? They offered. I asked them what was their budget? They told me and that was that I would took five hours to collect whatever, 550, whatever. But they offered me, asked them what was their budget? And they offered me 15 hundred, said I'll see you at the job, that's amazing.
Max Chopovsky: 21:39
I'm sure that you probably do a lot of reading in your off-time, so what's one of your favorite books that gets storytelling really right?
Marques Ogden: 21:48
The breakthrough code by Tom McCarthy. Tom used to work with Tony Robbins, head of marketing and sales, tom's a personal frames on my podcast and his book was awesome. It was absolutely just phenomenal and A great storytelling is actually his own life told through short fables and short and a short story, and it was great, so I would love that book. The breakthrough code by Tom McCarthy. I love that love that.
Max Chopovsky: 22:16
If you could say one thing to your 20 year old self this is before the drama with the Jaguars, this is kind of early on, when you were still Young, and before many of the lessons that you learned if you could say one thing to your 20 year old self, what would it be?
Marques Ogden: 22:36
Learn how to handle constant better. I had issued a your management in college. I had issues with authority in college and because I was really good in college and Howard, I didn't do a good job of learning how to be humble. At times it really was that I resented authority in some cases. So I would tell my younger self learn how to have discussions and Confidence that that thing just to work towards results.
Max Chopovsky: 23:02
I love it. Great advice, man. It's great advice. Whether or not the 20 year old you would have listened is probably another matter, but I Feel like you had to go through it to really learn those lessons agree. Well, that does it, man, marcus Ogden. Thank you for being on the show. Thanks to happen, but I really appreciate it, man. My pleasure, man, for show notes and more head over to Moss pod org. Find us on Apple podcast, spotify, wherever you get your podcast on. This was more of the story. I'm Max Drapowski. Thank you for listening. Talk to you next time.