48: Samir Wagle
Source: SunSentinel
“And I looked at my child and in that moment, I realized we would all be okay...”
About Samir
Samir Wagle is the founder of 11:11 Partners and the kind of guy who’s been willing to make the hard choices necessary to craft the life he wants.
After getting his MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, Samir dove headfirst into… hamburgers. The glorious golden arches welcomed the freshly educated Boothie as the director of operations and although he wouldn’t stay long at McDonalds, Samir’s path would eventually culminate in the role of President and CEO of Protein Bar, where he oversaw strategic improvements that drove a 40% increase in sales and a reduction in employee turnover.
Very nice. But not really. Samir realized that he was no longer happy in his marriage and also hated his job. A realignment was in order. So, over the course of four months, he got divorced, and quit… with nothing lined up. His immigrant parents, who figured by this point that they had nothing to worry about, started to get worried again.
Meanwhile, Samir asked himself this crazy question: who do I want to be? And then he asked the critical follow up question that made the difference between wishing and action: what am I willing to give up to get there?
As usually happens in times of introspection, it got a little dark. He pictured himself in a small garden apartment with a bottle of vodka as his only companion.
Fortunately, Samir arrived at a conclusion that would drive the next chapter of his career: external success doesn’t automatically deliver internal happiness. After realizing that he loved building high-performance teams, Samir founded 11:11 Partners, an executive search firm focused on finding and developing leaders for high-growth, purpose-driven organizations.
The focus at 11:11 has its roots in the Japanese philosophy of Ikigai, which, roughly translated, means your “reason for being.” Samir and his team want to find developing leaders at the intersection of their passion and skillset, which, incidentally, not only makes for engaged people, but, I would wager, probably reduces turnover as well.
And as for Samir’s own Ikigai? Well, in addition to his firm, it involves twice daily meditation, lots of home cooking, and, in his own words, stirring up trouble with his wife and son.
He had to learn some lessons the hard way, but… he’s emerged from the crucible all the better for it. As Samir likes to say, now his “insides and outsides are much more in alignment”.
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Max Chopovsky: 0:02
This is Moral of the Story Interesting people telling their favorite short stories and then breaking them down to understand what makes them so good. I'm your host, max Chepofsky. Today's guest is Samir Wagle, the founder of 1111 Partners and the kind of guy who's been willing to make the hard choices necessary to craft the life he wants. After getting his MBA from the University of Chicago Booth School of Business, samir dove headfirst into hamburgers. The glorious Golden Arches welcomed the freshly educated Boothie as the director of operations, and, although he wouldn't stay long at McDonald's, samir's path would eventually culminate in the role of president and CEO of Protein Bar, where he oversaw strategic improvements that drove a 40% increase in sales and a reduction in employee turnover. Very nice, but not really. You see, samir realized that he was no longer happy in his marriage and also hated his job. A realignment was in order, so over the course of four months, he got divorced and quit. With nothing lined up, his immigrant parents, who figured by this point that they had nothing to worry about, started to get worried again. Meanwhile, samir asked himself this crazy question who do I want to be? And then he asked the critical follow-up question that made the difference between wishing and action. What am I willing to give up to get there? As usually happens in times of introspection, it got a little dark. He pictured himself in a small garden apartment with a bottle of vodka as his only companion. Fortunately, samir arrived at a conclusion that would drive the next chapter of his career. External success doesn't automatically deliver internal happiness. After realizing that he loved building high performance teams, samir founded 1111 Partners, an executive search firm focused on finding and developing leaders for high-growth, purpose-driven organizations. The focus at 1111 has its roots in the Japanese philosophy of ikigai, which, roughly translated, means your reason for being. Samir and his team want to find developing leaders at the intersection of their passion and skill set, which, incidentally, not only makes for engaged people but, I would wager, probably reduces turnover as well. And as for Samir's own ikigai, well, in addition to his firm, it involves twice-daily meditation, lots of home cooking and, in his own words, stirring up trouble with his wife and son. He had to learn some lessons the hard way, but he's emerged from the crucible all the better for it. As Samir likes to say, now his insides and outsides are very much in alignment. Samir, welcome to the show. It's great to be here. Thanks, max, so you are here to tell us a story. So set the stage. Is there anything we need to know before we get started?
Samir Wagle: 2:45
Yeah, well, I was going to talk a little bit more about my left-turned albuquerque, which is what you referred to in your opening remarks, and there was a part that was really really dark, like when we were thinking about that very bottom of that time, and so I thought I'd go a little deeper in that. If that's of interest to you, let's go Tell me a story, all right? So, as you kind of talked about, there was this point where I also took a look at my life and I was technically doing really well. I had all the external stuff that felt really great to me, and inside it was not fun at all. I was not happy and, as you mentioned, over the next 18 months I went to my then wife, now co-parent, and said I think we need to get a divorce, went to the board six months later and said this is wonderful, but I don't want to do this anymore. And then about 10 minutes later I decided to stop drinking, and that's a lot of change at one time. And so there was a point where all of these are going simultaneously on and it was feeling very messy. It was a time where the divorce had hit its lowest point, when you have a company in transition and you're trying to find the new CEO, you're not making any dramatic changes, even though changes needed to be made, and you're also not talking to the team about what change is coming, and so there's tension that is created there, and then there's just adjusting your lifestyle and the changes that come with that, and so there was just a day that I felt incredibly dark. It was just a very hard day. The divorce got very messy, there was a lot of tension with the private equity firm and at work, and I got home and I grabbed my son, who was five I think he was five at the time. I was like, hey, let's just go for a walk. And we're walking. And I remember at the time just thinking I don't know what I'm going to do, like I literally don't know what I'm going to do. And the stories I was telling were things like all of my friends were built up during our 13 years of marriage. I will have no friends. I don't have a job because I was the kind of person that I resigned and I didn't have another job lined up because this is part of what caused my immigrant Indian parents some hard-topped tations you can imagine. And on and on and on, and so it felt like all doors were closed and I'm walking my son, who honestly is the most important thing in my life and he picked up a stick and he goes hey, daddy, I've got a stick. And I'm like great. And he proceeded to play with this stick and he's like I'm a knight, stick is a sword. And then after that he became a high wire tightrope walker with a sword or with his stick, and then he was a ninja and I looked at my child and I realized at that moment that we would all be okay, because, no matter what was going on my life, I was pretty sure that in the suburbs of Chicago I could find a stick. And that's that moment that I honestly think. That was a moment that the clouds got a little lighter for me and momentum shifted the other way. Wow.
Max Chopovsky: 5:52
What was it you think about him picking up the stick? What was it about that moment that was transformational for you?
Samir Wagle: 6:02
My son is probably my biggest teacher. He has this amazing ability to forgive almost instantaneously. And he's 13 now and he's still the same way. An incredible number of mistakes. I am so incredibly human. It is hilarious. And I'll be like, hey, I'm sorry. And he'll be like that's okay, and for him it is completely gone, like there's no residue. He's not thinking about it a week later. Me, you know, I want to put in the ledger and I'm going to use that ammunition when I need to right next time. And for my son he does not. And so watching him in that moment at five, realizing that he was fine, made me realize that all the external stuff I thought I needed in order to create the life I needed was exactly that. It wasn't truth.
Max Chopovsky: 6:56
I mean, isn't it crazy how you know if you think about kids, they don't have any of the baggage that we accumulate over our lives, and so, for them, being in the moment is the default. It's not the exception, it's the rule. And in times like this some of you know our darkest hours we can look at our kids and be like this is what I need to do more of. I need to be more in the moment and realize that, hey, it's going to be okay, yeah, Right, and like the irony of the fact that the student has become the teacher without even realizing it, right, and he has no idea he had no idea when he picked up the stick that he was literally in the process of changing his father's perspective on life.
Samir Wagle: 7:45
Yeah, and the beauty of that is there's a speaker I heard who talked about we tend to look at pain as bad, and his point was what if you think of like earth as finishing school? This isn't designed to be like a woo-woo type conversation, but what if you thought of earth as finishing school? And in any school, you're going to need exams and what pain is is telling you that you are off track and there's a lesson to be learned to bring you on track. And so if you start to look at the challenges in your life and go, hey, okay, great, this is about learning, this isn't about someone is inconveniencing me. Like there is something here that I need to do in order to continue my journey and that's helpful to me. Like is to look at that, because I think often, as humans, we often have different experiences on the surface, so the content is different, but the context is often the same. We're all learning the same kind of lessons here.
Max Chopovsky: 8:48
Yeah, did you feel like on the way back that your mind was running a million miles an hour about next steps, or were you still trying to sort of be in that moment of inflection that you kind of knew you were in?
Samir Wagle: 9:05
I moved into a place of peace. There was a million, million million miles an hour looking at my son play with this stick that we should have kept. Now that I think about it and just realizing that it'll be okay and there's so much I can't control and that has been so much in my racket through life is I want to control things, I want to control outcomes and I want to control outcomes and if that doesn't happen, I'm angry. So anger becomes part of my life, and the reason I want to control outcomes is because I'm scared. I mean, underneath it all is this fear. If I don't have this, what will happen to me? What will happen to me? So the journey as we kind of talk about is me trying to shift from these places of anger and fear as two really pervasive parts of my life to something that's a little bit more peaceful and one that's full of acceptance.
Max Chopovsky: 9:58
And I think that can only come with age, because, ultimately, what you're talking about is letting go, and letting go so damn hard because of the uncertainty of what comes next. Right, but the misconception that I think a lot of people have, and the misconception that I had when I was younger, because I was born in what was the former Soviet Union, where your life is very linear. There's something very specific that you do. You don't worry about hobbies or fun. Go get a job. It's relatively secure because of communism, right, and so everything is linear, and your parents have an expectation of this linear progression through life. And so that is how I came up. But what I realized is that actually, what you have to do is relinquish control, because all of the best experiences that people have usually come from some sort of surprise. Something unexpected yields some of your most fulfilling experiences. Right, case in point when you left your house to go on a walk with your son, you had no clue this was going to happen. You were just like I'm having a borderline panic attack. I have nothing figured out. So you were in that dark place that you just were so allergic to, right, and you were like I just need to go. I just need to get out, I'm going to take him, we're going to go, and you were vulnerable in that moment and I think that made you open to this experience. But ultimately, giving up control is. For me personally, it was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do, but if you talk to anybody who's ever done anything really interesting, it was rooted in giving up control. You can't will your life into being what you want it to be the vast majority of the time. That's the crazy thing about it to me is that was a time when you gave up control without even realizing it. That had to happen for the next thing to happen.
Samir Wagle: 12:04
Yeah, you know, we were talking about kids before we got online and one of the interesting things is, when I grew up, it was very clear to me that you have to go to college. The path is you go to college, you work as hard as you can, you make sure people like you and you move up the ladder, and that's the way the world works. And my wife and I talk with my son and we don't say that anymore. We now look and go. We say yeah, if college is what you want, great. And if a gap year is what seems like what it is, you still have to do something. This is not Xbox 365, right, but it doesn't have to be college. If you want to go into trades, fantastic. Find what resonates with you and you will be okay. And it is so interesting because there is such that part of me that looks at experiences my son has and says and wants to grade him. That's good, that's bad, I should help. One of the things I work hard is to remember that I am a guide. I am a guide for my son, but he's not.
Max Chopovsky: 13:06
It's his path to lead, but that's so hard to do as a parent, incredibly. If you want to protect them, you don't want to see them hurt, right, and so when you see them hurt, you feel like you're failing as a parent because they're hurting. But in reality you're succeeding as a parent because if they fall down, at least you can be there when they get back up and help provide the context. Okay, okay, have you ever seen the Bear? No, okay, first of all, you must watch the show. It's set in Chicago, as you probably know, and it's Mr Beef, so it's Orleans and I want to say Huron. I mean, it's right there in River North. We're just finishing up the second season and in the episode that we watched last night this is not a spoiler, but there are two characters sitting in a car and one of them asks the other you know, you've raised kids, what advice would you have for me? And he said it wouldn't be to have kids at all. And I was like that was funny, but also like such a lost opportunity, right. And then she's like, okay, and she's about to get out of the car and he goes the advice I would give you is to let the kids make some mistakes. Let them learn the lessons the hard way and don't worry so much because they'll be okay. And when my wife and I question kind of, we're really hard on ourselves as parents and so when we question ourselves around how many activities they're doing or something that's happening in school we were having one of these conversations, we're talking to somebody about this and they said something to me that stayed with me and it's now advice that I give to other people, because you know, everybody loves parenting advice. Clearly, the advice I give them is if you're even asking the question you're doing fine, right yeah?
Samir Wagle: 14:59
Like you're doing fine, well, and you have three girls right? Yeah, that's a full house on.
Max Chopovsky: 15:05
It's a full house. It's a very full house. It's very loud and very boisterous and very rambunctious and we are exhausted by the end of the day. But I also know that it's going to fly by before we know it. And I heard a quote somewhere that was like the days are long, the years are short, beautiful. So like you could just feel like, damn, it's a full house, they're going crazy, I have nothing left to give. And it is two o'clock in the afternoon, but pretty soon it's going to be two o'clock in the afternoon on their 18th birthday. And then you're like damn.
Samir Wagle: 15:42
you know and do you see any difference in how you and your wife treat your youngest versus your eldest? Totally.
Max Chopovsky: 15:49
Yeah, and in fact the one we're most concerned about is our middle one, because she, as any middle child, usually doesn't get as much attention, and so we try to be proactive around spending time with her and spending time with each one of them to make them feel sort of like they're getting individual attention from us. But yeah, it's hard, I mean it's not easy, but just like with anything in life, we're just doing our best. We're just trying, like everyone else, to do our best and do the right thing.
Samir Wagle: 16:19
Yeah, I tell Renee I know my son's going to be in therapy. It's just, whatever he'll choose, which thing it was that we missed. Yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 16:28
That's probably true for a lot of people. That's probably true for a lot of people, I mean, and also it's a matter of explaining to them that, hey, that's okay. Sometimes it's hard for us to process our feelings, and sometimes we need to talk to somebody about it.
Samir Wagle: 16:40
Yeah, absolutely. And again, we are scouts, right, we are guides, and so the path is theirs, the journey is theirs, and again, it's such a gift to me because there is so much that I still need to learn. I mean, there will always be so much for me to learn and just this ability of being able to now look. I think another thing that came out of it, as you've talked about, is we are all students. Every moment is that opportunity to both be present and to see what we can get from this moment. Yeah, and that is so hard, so hard, right, because at least my mind is always thinking about oh well, here's a 97 things on my to-do list. Yup, here's the things that I wish were different. What I try to work on is how do I tighten the amount of time it takes for me to get back to presence? So, there's always going to be things that send me off the edge, right? So then the work is great. I know I'm going to go off the ledge. How quickly can I get back up? Totally? That's where the work is.
Max Chopovsky: 17:40
Are there any sort of exercises or modalities that you found are useful for you outside of the regular meditation practice, like in the middle of the day when something is happening, is there something you can do in the moment?
Samir Wagle: 17:51
For me it has just been that practice, I mean, and my day is structured to give me kind of breaks. So I have meditation in the morning and then I have an intense work period until about 11. I hit the gym and then I have a meditation middle of the day to help me just kind of reflect and reset, and then I go in and do kind of another hard sprint in the afternoon and I find that just having that break and that complete detachment from the work I'm supposed to do, at least during weekdays, is quite a gift. The other thing I do and I'm getting better at it is I'm more vulnerable when things are going wrong. My normal tendency is to go Samira can handle it, samira should keep it inside and Samira should fix it and not talk to anybody. And the push now is the opposite, which is okay. I'm feeling a little disturbed. Who of my friends can I call and go? Hey, this is what's going on for me. Am I crazy? And often they're like yeah, you're not completely doing everything you need to do, and it's like okay, I can swallow that and then I can go on right. Or I'm sort of like no, you're all good and why don't you let it go. Forgive them, they're human too.
Max Chopovsky: 19:03
The fact that, a you have friends that you can call about this. The fact that, b you can be honest about it, and then C, most importantly, that you can, if they say no, you're crazy, actually internalize that and say you know what? Yes, I understand that there are things I need to change. That is a gift in and of itself. I hope you realize that.
Samir Wagle: 19:29
Yeah, and I just want to be clear that if we think I'm doing this all the time, that is clearly become a fiction episode of your show. So it's work right. It is just you're making progress where you can, yeah, but that's what I try to remember. I try to work really hard to call people or just to reach out to somebody and go. I'm off. I think that's one of the greatest things I do is just to get another opinion from someone. I trust that's amazing.
Max Chopovsky: 19:53
That's amazing that you do that. If we go back to the story that you told, what would you say is the moral of that story?
Samir Wagle: 19:59
To be a student. Two things, I would say be a student and work on being present. Because the big thing then was like the realization for me at that moment was in that moment there really was nothing wrong. In that moment we had a house, we had to play food, my son's happy, it was me being in the future, me worrying about the past. So it was just the value of just in this. I think for most of us, I imagine for most of your listeners, in every single moment we're pretty much okay, hard to remember.
Max Chopovsky: 20:36
But worth the reminder. I found this with myself. I can take, depending on how I'm feeling, an identical set of facts and interpret it completely differently. Depending on how I'm feeling that day, I could look at it and be like this is fantastic, what a great opportunity. Or, depending on how I'm feeling, I could be like this is the worst thing that literally has ever happened to me. Oh yeah, and it's such a good reminder that the narrative is in our head, not external. So you have told some wonderful stories in your day. You've also listened to some great stories. So, in your mind, what makes for a good story? What are good stories having common?
Samir Wagle: 21:16
I think good stories are vulnerable. There is something that you connect to the storyteller easily, so I love the idea of authenticity and vulnerability in a story. To me, that's what draws me in. I'm seeing a real person, the person behind the mask, which is honestly what you do right. That's why this is making a plug for Max's podcast right now. Which is why this is such amazing podcast because that's what it is about is that desire to really understand who people are, because I think we all have a lot of shared experiences. I really believe we could take any single person on this planet, let's say, over the age of five, and if we sat down and just listened to their story, we would go. We could make a movie out of this. It's just an amazing experience, yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 22:05
A lot of people don't share their stories and I feel like everybody has a good story and it's just a question of are you willing to listen to it? Yeah, I think that's underrated. I actually think that people aren't used to being heard intensely, like that's not a thing. That's generally because everybody's ear point is in their mind. They're in their head, you know, thinking about the next thing they have to say or like the next thing they have to do. So I think I think it's underrated. We talked about what makes a good story, what makes for a good storyteller.
Samir Wagle: 22:39
The same characteristics are obviously there and for me it's some sense of joy. They are having a life experience that allows them to go like hey, I want to share with you that enthusiasm, that authenticity around. I want to share something with you because hopefully it is of value to you in service, like less about pushing the agenda and more about that change. You know I talked to a lot of senior executives who are like, can you take a quick look at my resume? And that's one of the things we talk about is there are so many resumes that are like these are the things I've done, so I deserve this, and I suggest to mindset of what if it was more about what you can offer, what if your entire resume was about what you can offer and what you offer the world? And I think that's what I think you see in those people that are great storytellers. I like that.
Max Chopovsky: 23:32
And it makes people listen.
Samir Wagle: 23:34
Hopefully.
Max Chopovsky: 23:36
Now you have a son. How do you use storytelling in your personal life?
Samir Wagle: 23:42
Oh gosh, all the time and it goes back to this idea of being a guide I have found that my personal experiences are really seemed to have some impact on my son and I think part of it is. I certainly was guilty of this. There can be a tendency for us to make especially fathers. I think we can deify them. My father is perfect. I remember my father's, the same height I am, which is the towering height of five eight, and I remember being convinced he was like at least six three. And he's like I'm not six three, I'm like you're not six three. And so I think it's the same type of thing with my son. Like I will tell my son I make a mistake, and he always looks at me like are you telling me the truth? And so the stories around the mistakes I make I think have a lot of value for a couple of reasons. One, it's there and two is it deepens the quality of our relationship. Like every time I tell him I'm like listen, I have done this and that was not great. And here's the consequences of that. And I totally get you have your own life to lead. So that's how it shows up in life. We use it quite a bit and for what it's worth, I encourage my son to tell me stories. Oh, I like that. Open ended, open ended, just like tell me what's going on, tell me what you're thinking about, tell me, like whatever it is, and it's fascinating. It is really fascinating and I learned so much from things like that. I'm like me as a student, right, I love that.
Max Chopovsky: 25:17
I'm going to have to use that. I mean, our girls have no shortage of enthusiasm for telling stories, so a lot of the time it's a question of actually also valid advice for storytelling. How can you condense that? Because they would just keep going. But it's funny because, if you remember, at college your professors probably started every lecture with a story and a lot of books start with a story and I love that because, well, it's entertaining, but also it kind of pulls you in. You're like what's going to be the connection to today's lesson from the story? And I was waiting with my two of my kids for the bus this morning and we just started talking about cars. Mitsubishi drove by and they were like oh, what kind of cars that I told them. And I told them I used to drive Mitsubishi a long time ago and the topic went to seat belts, because we always make them wear their seat belts, and I said you know that car? I was in a really serious car accident that this truck pulled out in front of me. I hit him going almost 70 miles an hour. If I weren't wearing my seat belt I would have been killed. And so we went into all of the dynamics and physics of airbags and whatever, and they asked me a million questions. At the end of the day, that was probably a more effective way to illustrate to them that you got away your seat belt. And it's all about storytelling, no question. So let me ask you this Does every story have to have a moral?
Samir Wagle: 26:45
No, I think stories can entertain Right, and I think you can tell stories. I tell stories sometimes from like just a place of just pure love for the beauty of the sharing, and I don't know if anyone needs to get anything from it aside from us having a shared experience. Like to your point, stories draw us in, they pull us in, and so now I'm curious about your thoughts about that question.
Max Chopovsky: 27:15
It's funny. In the last two weeks I've had two people ask me that and before that nobody asked me that. So I actually think every story has a moral, whether or not it's explicit. So if you hear a story and it's purely entertainment, something happens, there's some shift, there's some character arc, there's a beginning, middle and an end. There has to be some progression in that story and there's a moral tied to that progression in my mind. That's just my opinion. I think that there's a moral to every story, if you just look for it, even the entertaining stories that are just there to be an escape from reality. I think there's a moral there too.
Samir Wagle: 28:00
And how do you define moral, because I think that would be a big part of it, right.
Max Chopovsky: 28:05
It is a takeaway that you learn through the protagonist of the story, something that they learn over the course of that narrative that you can then take away without having to have participated in their journey. That's how I would define it. It's some sort of lesson. It's some sort of lesson. Yeah, I think it's amazing. Yeah, what is one of your favorite books that gets storytelling right?
Samir Wagle: 28:41
I feel this is so cliche, but I've always loved to kill a mockingbird. It was a book I read for the first time fairly young, right Like I think it was like second grade and I've probably read it six times since then and I love a couple of things I really does. One is taking Scouts perspective is super powerful. You know, taking a Scouts perspective it seems to be a theme of today is super powerful and it feels like an incredibly effective way to deal with what was a very sensitive issue, and so I love just that combination of moving things through. So that's certainly that's in my pantheon.
Max Chopovsky: 29:25
What a great answer from somebody who has accomplished so much in the business realm that one of your favorite books is actually pure sort of fiction, with almost the fable that has an obvious moral.
Samir Wagle: 29:41
Yeah, very much so. So last question for you.
Max Chopovsky: 29:48
If you could have five minutes with your 20-year-old self, what would you say to him? What would you say to him?
Samir Wagle: 29:57
I would say relax, yeah, yeah and I'm sure others have said that as well it all works out. It all works out. And the idea of if you're just willing to kind of like enjoy the ride the next 30, because I'm in my 50s the next 30 years of your life will be a lot of fun. Gotta give up the control first, though. Absolutely Like. Just you don't have to be X, y or Z, just enjoy the ride and do your best. I mean it very much is. Occasionally we talk about these things like give up control, and I've talked to people who are very much on the other side, which is, well, I'm not going to work today and that's up to someone else. Like that's not me, that's someone else. It's like no, the way this works is at least for me. I work as hard as I can and I really do work as hard as I can and then, after I've worked as hard as I can, then I give up control. I do my best, and then I realize that it's out of my hands. That's a critical distinction.
Max Chopovsky: 30:57
By the way, I'm glad that we mentioned that. I'm glad that you said it because you're right, there are people that have this sort of fatalistic attitude and they just let it go but, just like you, had to turn things around by working as hard as you can and then giving up control. That's a critical step. So well, you mentioned that. Yeah Well, this was awesome. Sameer Wagley, thinker, leader, searcher, thank you for being on the show.
Samir Wagle: 31:29
Pleasure to be here. Max. Thanks for inviting me, Of course.
Max Chopovsky: 31:32
For show notes and more head over to maspodorg. Find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get your podcast on. This was Morrill of the Story. I'm Max Tropowski. Thank you for listening. Talk to you next time.