42: Sian Morson
Source: Instagram
“And then I checked the cameras and the entire system was down. I’d never seen that.”
About Sian
Sian Morson is an Antigua and Barbuda-born entrepreneur, artist, curator, investor, web3 enthusiast, and builder of communities. And that’s plural because Sian has had quite the pluralistic and diverse journey through life.
Sian was born on the island of Antigua to a father from Curacao and mother from Montserrat. So why Antigua? Well, because, in a portentous preview of her intrepid adventures, as Sian’s pregnant mother flew to Montserrat, Sian decided that the world was ready for her, and after getting off the plane, Sian’s mother gave birth to the family’s first Antiguan and Barbudan citizen.
Sian spent her formative years on the island of St. Thomas and moved to New York at the ripe age of 11. Being an immigrant, she had the typical expectation of becoming a doctor or lawyer (I hear that, girl), but when she cut her finger as a dishwasher and fainted at the sight of her blood, it became clear that medicine would not be in her future.
Sian instead decided to embrace her creativity, going to Manhattan’s High School of Art and Design, schlepping an hour each way from the Bronx and continuing the rapid expansion of her horizons. Raised as an Adventist, Sian was not allowed to go to the movies growing up so, naturally, she chose to major in Film & Television at NYU’s Tisch School of the Arts and subsequently picked up a Master of Arts degree in Design for Interactive Media at Middlesex University in London.
Moving to the bay area during the dot com boom, Sian started as a project manager in advertising, working for clients like philips, audi, coca cola and reuters.
One of the many companies Sian founded or co-founded was the Starfish Accelerator, a first of its kind creative accelerator that invests in premium IP from mid-career storytellers of color, aiming to lift up content creators on the periphery of the “mainstream” industry. After spending time at Magic Leap as the Head of Operations and the Director of Immersive Experience Operations, Sian went all in on the world of Web3, running community at Palm NFT Studio and Cool Cats LLC and starting The BlkChain (BLACK CHAIN, spelled blkchain), a community-driven magazine intended to provide creators of all races and creeds a platform to showcase their art.
Sian now runs community at ScienceMagic Studios, a Web3 studio joint venture between comms agency Science Magic, crypto research firm Delphi Digital, and leading macro investor Raoul Pal.
Sian has been featured in Wall Street Journal, Marie Claire, Essence, Inc. Magazine and Fast Company.
You would think that it’s a far cry from her Caribbean roots except that Sian is doing what the West Indians are so good at: building, growing, and strengthening a deep sense of community with ties so close-knit that it really is one for all, and all for one.
Books
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Max Chopovsky: 0:02
This is Moral of the Story interesting people telling their favorite short stories and then breaking them down to understand what makes them so good. I'm your host, Max Chepofsky. Today's guest is Sean Morrison, the Antigua and Barbuda-born entrepreneur, artist, curator, investor, web-threat enthusiast and builder of communities. And that's plural, because Sean has had quite the pluralistic and diverse journey through life. Sean was born on the island of Antigua to a father from Curacao and a mother from Monserrat. So why Antigua? Well, because, in a portentous preview of her intrepid adventures, as Sean's pregnant mother flew to Monserrat, Sean decided that the world was ready for her and, after getting off the plane, Sean's mother gave birth to the family's first Antiguan and Barbuda citizen. Sean spent her formative years on the island of St Thomas and moved to New York at the right age of 11. Being an immigrant, she had the typical expectation of becoming a doctor or a lawyer I hear that girl but when she cut her fingers at dishwasher and fainted at the sight of her blood, it became clear that medicine would not be in her future. Sean instead decided to embrace her creativity, going to Manhattan's High School of Art and Design, schlepping an hour each way from the Bronx and continuing the rapid expansion of her horizons. Raised as an Adventist, Sean was not allowed to go to the movies. Growing up, so naturally, she chose to major in film and television at NYU's Tisch School of the Arts and subsequently picked up a Master of Arts degree in design for interactive media at Middlesex University in London. Moving to the Bay Area during the dot-com boom, Sean started as a project manager in advertising, working for clients like Phillips, Audi, Coca-Cola and Reuters. One of the many companies Sean founded or co-founded was the Starfish Accelerator, a first-of-its-kind creative accelerator that invests in premium IP from mid-career storytellers of color, aiming to lift up content creators on the periphery of the mainstream industry. After spending time at Magic Leap as the head of operations and the director of immersive experience operations, Sean went all in on the world of Web 3, running community at Palm NFT Studio and CoolCats LLC and starting the Black Chain, a community-driven magazine intended to provide creators of all races and creeds a platform to showcase their art. Sean now runs community at Science Magic Studios, a Web 3 studio joint venture between Com's Agency, Science Magic, crypto research firm, Delphi Digital and leading macro investor Raoul Paul. Sean has been featured in the Wall Street Journal, Marie Claire, Essence Inc magazine and Fast Company. You would think that it's a far cry from her Caribbean roots. Except that Sean is doing what the West Indians are so good at building, growing and strengthening a deep sense of community with ties so close in it that it really is one for all and all for one. Sean, welcome to the show.
Sian Morson: 2:59
Thank you for having me. You really did your research. It's interesting. At least I can do. To hear it all told back to me. Usually I'm the one telling it, but it's good to hear it back.
Max Chopovsky: 3:10
Oh no, you got to do the research, you got to have the solid introduction.
Sian Morson: 3:13
Absolutely.
Max Chopovsky: 3:15
Sean, you're here to tell us a story. Before we get into it, set the stage. Is there anything that we should know about the story before we begin?
Sian Morson: 3:25
I don't think so. I think it's interesting that you started out with my mom giving birth in Antigua, because the story is actually about my mom. I think it ties in really nicely, but I think it's something that everyone could relate to, or I'm hoping so. Anyway, I've never told this story before, so it will be making its debut on your show.
Max Chopovsky: 3:49
I love debuts. All right, let's rock and roll. Tell me a story.
Sian Morson: 3:53
All right. A few years ago my mom had a stroke. What's important to know about me and my mom is we talk every day and sometimes multiple times per day. I live in Texas but my mom does not live in Texas. She lives on her own. She's fairly active. She does all of the things. This one day we had spoken. She'd gone to the eye doctor and she's telling me the results of what the doctor said. Everything was fine. Later that evening I tried her again. I didn't get her but I figured maybe she just went to sleep. Later on that evening I got a call from my cousin who lives about five or 10 minutes away. The minute I got the call I knew something was wrong. I stayed on the line probably for about two or three hours. The fire and police personnel and neighbors were trying to get the door off to get into the home my mom had. She'd been speaking to a friend of hers on the phone and the friend realized that her speech was significantly slurred and she wasn't really making much sense. So we're thankful that that friend had the presence of mind to call my cousin and then he was able to go down and, with the fire folks and the paramedics get the door open, get her into, get her some help, get her to the hospital. I flew down, stayed with her in the ICU for about three days. My brother came down. We stayed with her for about three months. We're thankful that she had a full recovery from the stroke. So that was a few years ago. Now fast forward to a few weeks ago, it might have been a month or two ago actually, I don't remember. Anyway, I was trying to reach my mom. What we did as a result of that because that was so scary was we put cameras throughout my mom's home just so we can keep an eye on. You know, if anything happened of the sort again. So I typically would give her a call, like I usually do. I didn't get her. So I remember she said she was going to go to church. So I said, okay, maybe she's a church. I checked the cameras but entire system was down and that was really scary to me because I'd never. I'd never seen that. And I believe one of the cameras goes down. We get notifications on our phones telling us and usually it's like a brief outage goes back up. Entire system was down so had no visibility on anything. So yo a little concerned, but not terribly concerned Called back and another couple of hours did not get a response, Said, okay, maybe she stayed at church for lunch. That happens sometimes. I'm really running through various scenarios trying to calm myself down, but getting more and more nervous as time goes by. Riched out to my brother hey, have you heard from mom? No, no, didn't speak to her since yesterday. Don't know what's going on. Okay, trying not to alarm him either, a couple more hours, and so now it's been like all day and I'm starting to freak out. So I reach out to my cousin and I just say, hey, did you see mom at church today? Oh, yeah, she was at church and she went home. Okay, great, have you spoken to her since she got home? No, so I'm trying not to alarm him, but I'm like, look, somebody needs to go and check on mom. I don't have visibility into the home. I'm freaking out. So I call him back and I was like hey, just, I haven't been able to reach her all day. I don't know what's going on. Please, please, please, send somebody by. You know, one of the kids can go by and just see if she's okay. Temeslai, are gonna call from my mom, right. She's like oh, I forgot the phone in my purse. I came home from church, I forgot the phone in my purse and you know, it was buzzed. She turns it off. She turns the ringer off when she's in church, so she wasn't hearing it and accidentally, I guess, she unplugged the whole camera system. So that explains the whole thing. But those six hours were so harrowing for me, so scary, so terrifying. And when it turned out to be nothing, I really started to just examine, like, okay, why was I so afraid? I just took a lot of time to stop and really reflect on what that meant, right. And so what I came up with was that obviously, that was a fear-based thing. Fear is real, right, it's a natural emotion. But what I realized as a result of that was that a lot of my decisions were fear-based or coming from a very fearful place, and that was a change that I wanted to make in my life. And so, as a result of that, I went back and just looked at other fear-based decisions that I'd made in my life, in my business, et cetera, et cetera, and just did a full sweep. And so that's where I am. Today is right. Now I'm really examining my life going deep to make sure that decisions that I make are not informed only by fear.
Max Chopovsky: 8:39
So that's my story and you're in that process now of the re-examination.
Sian Morson: 8:44
It is a process, not an event. It's not something that just happens because you realize how deep-rooted that fear is and it's pervasive throughout your life, and so that is where I am today is really trying to take a step back and understand the meaning behind some of the decisions that I have made and will continue to make throughout my life.
Max Chopovsky: 9:08
Well, first of all, thank God, your mom's okay.
Sian Morson: 9:11
Yes.
Max Chopovsky: 9:13
That is crazy. Where does she live?
Sian Morson: 9:17
She lives in Florida.
Max Chopovsky: 9:18
In Florida by herself.
Sian Morson: 9:20
Yes.
Max Chopovsky: 9:21
And how old is she? She just turned 74, last week it's like you, installed the cameras specifically because of what happened, and then she just unplugged the cameras by accident, used the phone in her purse with the ringer off by accident.
Sian Morson: 9:37
Like all of these things conspire. Yes.
Max Chopovsky: 9:41
It's like when Chernobyl exploded. They're like every one of these things. It wasn't any one thing that happened. It was literally multiple things that all had to happen together in that sequence for this disaster to strike. And that's exactly what happened with your mom, and the craziest thing about it is she was completely oblivious the whole time.
Sian Morson: 10:04
Completely oblivious, like when the kids showed up. She was like what are you guys doing here?
Max Chopovsky: 10:10
Did you have some choice words for her when you finally talked to her?
Sian Morson: 10:14
No, I was just relieved, really, and we chuckled about it because, to your point, it is the perfect storm of these cascading events that led to this, so learning experience as well. She was like why were you worried? It's like, why was I worried? This has happened before.
Max Chopovsky: 10:38
I was gonna say you're probably. I could imagine the thought running through your mind of okay, if there's a power outage, I have to install a generator and probably run some extra cables. And if I do that, what are the other points of failure that could happen? And your mom's like, hey, good luck with that generator, girl, I just unplugged it, my bad.
Sian Morson: 10:56
I know she's like it's not that deep. It's not that deep.
Max Chopovsky: 11:01
Nothing wrong with the system. What I find interesting is there are these pivotal moments in our lives that we go through, that, when these pivotal moments occur, we have an opportunity, and there's an active component to that opportunity and a passive component. And the passive component is hey, it has been presented to us and we can either recognize it or not. The active component is that recognition. And then what do we do about it? What do we do with this information that we've been presented with? And so I feel like, so I'm reading the Rick Rubin book that he wrote about creating art Creativity.
Sian Morson: 11:44
Yes, it's so good, so good.
Max Chopovsky: 11:47
I literally am just reading. The chapters are so short. When I started reading the book, I thought this is crazy. I'm going to get through like 10 chapters and one sitting and I only get through one because it's so deep I have to go back and reread it. And so one of the things he talks about is when you're creating art, as an artist, you are just an antenna and a recipient of inspiration, but it doesn't end there. Once you receive the information, you have to take it in, hold on to it, interpret it and then do something about it. And that's what you did. And so you said hey, I understand, as a byproduct of this reflection, as a result of this reflection, that I have been making a lot of fear-based decisions and so a lot of people I feel like wouldn't do that. What do you think made you sort of recognize that and interpreted as something that you needed to take action on?
Sian Morson: 12:42
It's a good question. I think it comes from a larger examination of my life that I've been going through. I've been just sort of stepping back and taking stock. I've been thinking a lot lately about legacy what do I want people to feel, to think, when I'm no longer here? What do I want my legacy to be? And I think that was parcel of it. I don't know if it actually came about, because I have actually recently read the Rick Rubin book as well, and so that has certainly been food for thought, and so I've been doing a lot of self-examination, and so what I came up with was that obviously, I was afraid that something was wrong. I was afraid that something had happened to my mom, I was afraid that she had passed. But in the larger scheme of things, as I think about things like legacy, it's like none of us are getting out of here alive. This is an inevitability. And so what was more important for me to focus on? Yes, certainly, if something had happened to my mom, I would be sad. If my mom passes, I would be distraught, but it would be more beneficial for me to think about her legacy and what she's passed on to me and who I am because of her. And so why focus on the negative in an instance like that? Why run to fear as opposed to thinking about better things or more positive things? And so that sort of filtered out. It started with just that, but then I just really wanted to examine what other decisions have I been making that were fueled by fear? And when you really sort of peel back those layers, I was like, holy hell, there are a lot of decisions that I've made that have been based on fear. How could I revisit those situations and learn and not replicate? Because I think once you do it, you keep doing it. You know what I mean, whether or not you realize, it just sort of becomes a habit, whether those opportunities that I may have had, that I've passed up on and I've told myself it was another reason. But maybe deep down I was really afraid and I found a lot of those things. So it was really, it was frightening, but it definitely presented that opportunity to dig a little deeper. And yeah, I don't know if the book was a part of it. I have been reading. I've been reading not just that book but other books that have been talking about. Sort of like on the consciousness scale, fear is really at the bottom. You know what I mean? It's not. It's like a negative thing to be driven by fear. And so what you want to do is you really want to raise your consciousness so that, ultimately, you're not making decisions that are rooted in fear. And so I just I'm glad that the realization came to me in the end. It certainly came by a tragic event, but I'm glad that it did, and I'm thankful and I'm unfortunately not tragic in the end. Yes, yes, that's true, that's true. Tragic in my mind and that's the other thing is how we psych ourselves out by just thinking of things that are not necessarily positive. So, yes, I am certainly grateful.
Max Chopovsky: 15:52
The hardest thing about decisions that are driven by fear is exactly as you said. It's not obvious sometimes that they're driven by fear and you really have to peel back the layers of the onion and go into this place. That is not illuminated most of the time and, as I like to say, the good stuff happens in the deepest, darkest places. That's where the secrets are, that's where the revelations are. But people just have a real discomfort around going to those places because the path of least resistance is to say, hey, this is how I've always done things. It seemed to work fairly well for me to date. Why change now? Because for most people, good enough is good enough, but they say that good is the enemy of the great, and sometimes it just takes a massive personal crisis or trauma to nudge you to reconsider your philosophy or your drivers. Absolutely yeah, Okay, so you mentioned legacy and I'm curious what do you want your legacy to be?
Sian Morson: 17:14
I don't know. I'm still figuring it out and I think I was listening to your introduction of me and you're right, I have done so many things and it's so varied. There are times when I'm like, well, maybe I should have focused on one thing so that I could be the very best at one thing. But I'm sort of like I've got my hands in all these different pots and I don't know if that makes. I don't know if that makes legacy something easy to point to or if it makes it a little more challenging. I'm inclined to think it makes it a little more challenging, but I haven't yet settled on what I want my legacy to be. I've been talking to a lot of my close friends about that and they're like you, probably already have left your legacy and you don't even know it. But when I think of legacy, I just think of meaning, I think of influencing other people and something that lives on way past me, and I don't even know that I've done that thing yet. I might have, but I'm still looking for it.
Max Chopovsky: 18:14
Well, there are a handful of people every generation, and sometimes even rare than that, sometimes even more seldom that leave what is an undisputable legacy. Elon Musk is a perfect example. How many industries has he changed? How many lives has he changed? But for most of us I was thinking about this the vast majority of people are forgotten three generations after they're gone. If you look at the day of the dead as an example, or Coco, like, the concept behind that movie is you die your first death. You die your second death when you're forgotten, and so there's this focus. There's this focus on keeping people alive through their memories, and I think that's a wonderful concept. In reality, though, I just think back to my great grandmother great grandfather I know very little about them and my grandfather, who was an incredible, incredible man. He was a poet and journalist, and when Chernobyl, as I mentioned, when it exploded, we were evacuated I was living in Kiev at the time. They sent him to the reactor because he was a journalist and he witnessed the devastation first hand. So he's lived an incredible life. He's published so many books, but with every generation, that fades a little bit, and what I think legacy is, at least in terms of a lasting impact is when you create something that outlives you, when you create art, whether it's books or paintings or music or whatever the case may be but something that people can point to after you're gone and say that was to Rick Rubin's point, that was their perspective on the world, that was an embodiment of their values. But that's a legacy for people outside of your immediate family. The legacy to me, as I think about and I don't have it figured out, but I do think about this stuff quite a bit the legacy to me maybe it's not the number of people you impact, maybe it's not the quantity of the impact, maybe it's the quality of the impact, maybe it's I don't have to impact a thousand people, I'm just not going to have that reach. But what if my three daughters remember me as an incredibly present father? And even if my legacy fades two or three generations down the road, they will remember me and they will be like he was there to make dinner and play with us and whatever. And maybe that's what it is. But it's so hard, especially when you're younger, and even harder, I think even hard when you start to age, to try to predict that because there's so many variables, it's so unknown.
Sian Morson: 21:10
I think the way that I might choose to deal with it is to not think about it so much, just to continue doing what I'm doing. Because, you're right, I never understood the term. You can't be it unless you see it. I never understood it until somebody said it to me and then I was like, well, really, I really influenced you in that way. I was like, yeah, I just never seen anybody like you, I've never seen a black woman start a mobile development firm and not be an engineer. Do you know what I mean? And I was like, oh, I guess that does make sense and I'm thankful that I've had a positive impact. And so maybe it is in those little moments, maybe it is those one-on-one experiences where we don't even think of that really probably matter more than we think they do and actually contribute in a larger way towards our legacy. Whatever that may be Because, yes, I've written books, like you said, I make art. All that stuff will outlive me and will last longer than I will. But for me I think it's those intimate moments where you get the chance to hear from someone how you've personally impacted them, and probably those mean more to me. Let's just put it that way.
Max Chopovsky: 22:27
Not quantity, but quality.
Sian Morson: 22:29
Exactly.
Max Chopovsky: 22:31
By the way, to your earlier point of is the approach of doing all of these different things, kind of a portfolio lifestyle, a better approach than focusing on one thing? Or maybe different, but better for you? I can tell you, as somebody who's done a lot of different things, that if I only stuck with one thing, I would have an acidic sense of regret that would eat away at me every single day. I went back to do that one thing. It would be toxic to me. It would be toxic. There are people in this world like Kobe Bryant, for example. He knew what he wanted to do.
Sian Morson: 23:17
Right, he was focused.
Max Chopovsky: 23:19
That was his box. That was until the day he died. That was it. There were variations on how he approached it. He had other initiatives that he worked on, but it was all around basketball. I am not that fortunate. I'm not fortunate enough to know exactly what I want to do, any one thing, but I feel like working on all these other things. If you have something even resembling a gift for those other things, then you owe it to yourself and the rest of the world, whoever might come across. Whatever you make, even if it's one person that says, hey, as a black woman who started a company and you're not an engineer, you've inspired me. That makes that entire venture worth it.
Sian Morson: 24:03
I agree. I used to look at people that way and be super envious that they could focus on that one thing they're like. You're right. I think people like us are just built differently. I could never just focus on one thing. Even as I sit in my office, I've got at least three things that I'm doing at any given time. This is a rare moment where I am focused on one thing. I usually do have multiple things going at the same time, but that makes me feel alive. That makes me happy. That is how I operate. At my best is when I do have a few things going. I'm also interested in so many things I don't know how to. The world is so full of wonderful things that I've not yet learned about. Why live in myself to just one thing, right?
Max Chopovsky: 24:52
You're speaking my language. Our ADD is a gift to the world in some way.
Sian Morson: 25:00
I've started to embrace that. Actually, before I was like oh no, no, no, I'm not. But now I'm like well, maybe there is something to the fact that I might have a touch of ADD or something like that, because it's just how I am wired, I'm embracing it and I am extremely productive, let's just say, as a result of it.
Max Chopovsky: 25:20
I have a heavy touch of ADD. The only way for me to be able to function as a productive human and member of society is to surround myself with projects that interest me. Again, going back to our North Star for the Hour, which is Rick Rubin, he would say you follow the seeds that have promised, the seeds that are interesting to you. The order is the art yourself and then the audience. Yeah, absolutely absolutely so, Sean. Let's go back to the story you told for a minute. What is the moral of that story?
Sian Morson: 25:57
That's a good question. I think the moral of the story is that fear can't be the motivator for anything and live in the present. Actually, I think that might be the better moral is to live in the present as opposed to the future or the past Can't control either of those. All you have is today. So I think that's the moral. For me, that's a great observation, because it's hard.
Max Chopovsky: 26:24
As a human, that's what separates us from other species is the ability to think about the past and the ability to envision a different future. So here we are telling ourselves to be like the simpler creatures in the world by focusing on the present. But maybe my dog is onto something, maybe the fact that when he's playing with me, nothing else exists in the world.
Sian Morson: 26:49
Nothing else yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 26:51
Damn, that's a hell of a feeling, you or?
Sian Morson: 26:53
I are not like that, though right, Because we're doing something right now but thinking about something else. So it is a constant, constant challenge, but I think a worthy one too.
Max Chopovsky: 27:04
Agreed. Agreed because we're always searching for something that excites us.
Sian Morson: 27:09
It's the search, it is the constant search. Yes, absolutely.
Max Chopovsky: 27:13
There's nothing wrong with the search. So you have both heard and told some great stories in your day. So what in your mind do really good stories have in common?
Sian Morson: 27:28
I think good stories have a personal bent to them. Telling a story from your own personal POV, I think, helps to pull the listener in. I think a good story has to have beginning, middle and an end. That might just be my film school education talking, but I have been programmed to believe that stories must have a beginning, a middle and an end. And a moral is always nice too, I think, as much as you can relate the story to the listener.
Max Chopovsky: 28:02
It's got to be a predictable structure.
Sian Morson: 28:04
Yeah, I think that stories, if they're too heady, you lose your listener. So I think the more that you can personalize your story so that your listener can relate on a very intimate level, those are good aspects of storytelling.
Max Chopovsky: 28:21
So then, on the other side of that, what makes for a good storyteller?
Sian Morson: 28:27
Clarity. I think that's the big one. People have to be able to understand what you're saying. So I think it's important to speak slowly and clearly and choose your words with intention. Those all play into the story 100% and the experience right, because you are taking the user on a journey of sorts. They need to want to come with you on that journey. So it is incumbent upon the storyteller to make sure that the user wants that you don't lose them halfway through. You've got to keep them on the journey the entire way.
Max Chopovsky: 29:02
That's right. That's right. They have to be engaged. Yeah, absolutely. Does every story have to have a moral?
Sian Morson: 29:11
No, I don't think so, because I don't know that the storyteller sets the moral. The moral is what I get from it as a listener and that may it may just be a good laugh. Right, that doesn't have to be a moral, or I could find deeper meaning. But I don't think every story has to have a moral.
Max Chopovsky: 29:30
Interesting. Perhaps the deeper meaning becomes the moral.
Sian Morson: 29:34
Maybe, but maybe not too right. I mean, when I meet up with friends, sometimes we're just shooting the shit and we're just telling stories. There's no, but it's a part of the overall experience and it brings us closer together, but there's no huge takeaway. But sometimes there is. I don't know, I don't know, but I would say no.
Max Chopovsky: 29:55
So you mentioned some books that you're reading. What are some of the sort of most impactful books that you've read?
Sian Morson: 30:05
We've already talked about the Rick Rubin book, but as a companion to that there is a book called the Dau of Wu written by the RZA, who is also a music producer, I'm sure you know, from Wu Tang Clan, and I bought that book last year at South by and I never read it, and I have been. I have tons and tons of books in my Amazon shopping cart and I told myself the last couple of months that I'm going to read all of the books that I have first before ordering new ones, and so that book was sitting around and I picked it up and it's actually a really good read because he recounts his life, you know, growing up in Brooklyn and Staten Island, and you know he tells the whole story of how he came together with folks like Method man and the entire group and ODB and all of that. But then there are sort of morals that are rooted in Taoism and Buddhism and Eastern religions riddled throughout the book and it is so amazing. It was not what I was expecting. I was pleasantly surprised and I think that's a fantastic. It's a great book. I don't know how many people are even familiar with it, because I did not even know that RZA wrote a book, but it is a really, really, really good book. It's an easy read too. Maybe it's really thin, so it's easy to get through, and maybe a day or two depending on how much you get through it, but I highly recommend that.
Max Chopovsky: 31:32
Well, I can tell you, just because it's a thin book doesn't make it an easy one to read, because I just read it's true Michael Eric Dyson's book about Jay-Z's lyrics and it was a tiny little thing but it took me weeks to get through it because it is dense.
Sian Morson: 31:49
Really, oh wow, I'll have to add that to my list.
Max Chopovsky: 31:54
Oh, definitely the funny thing about Wu Tang. Incarcerated Scarfaces by Ray Kwan was one of the first rap songs that I ever heard. This is like early, early 90s, right after we moved to America. Yeah, Do you remember that song? It's such a good track.
Sian Morson: 32:11
I don't actually.
Max Chopovsky: 32:13
Oh, that drum beat is so good.
Sian Morson: 32:16
Fun fact is that I grew up on Staten Island, so when, I came from the Virgin Islands. We landed on Staten Island and you want to talk about a culture shock, it was like whoa, it was like you know, just first of all being in New York City, but working class Italian, irish, blacks, everybody sort of oh, it was wild. It was really interesting. So I had a affinity for the Wu Tang when they came out because I was like you never hear anything about Staten Island. It's like nobody. Yes, it's a whole different world, to be honest, growing up there. So it's really really pleased when they came out.
Max Chopovsky: 32:55
And they rapped it big right Because, like Nas was rapping Queens, you had Big E and Jay-Z rapping Brooklyn, and so who was? I think Big Joe was the Bronx, I think, and so like who was doing Staten Island? So there had to be somebody here comes the Wu yeah exactly. Oh my gosh.
Sian Morson: 33:12
Exactly.
Max Chopovsky: 33:14
So last question for you If you could say one thing to your 20-year-old self, what would it be?
Sian Morson: 33:23
It would be. Oh, the places you will go. Like. I think I've always been sort of a bit of a loner, even through high school, and you know I wanted to go to film school. I went to film school. Even in film school I was a bit of a loner, which is odd because film is a collaborative art, so you literally could not make your film alone. You needed people around you. But I was still very I was very shy, very sort of, you know, closed off. And I remember I got my first apartment. It was on Avenue B, between 6th and 7th and Manhattan. I, you know, walked to school, go to work, walk home and I, just I was in my head a lot just thinking about my God, what is my life going to be like? Am I going to stay in New York? Am I going to leave? Am I, what am I going to do? Am I going to end up in the film industry? And so I could have never imagined everything that I've done when I was that that you know young person in New York, just sort of starting out my life and trying to chart a course for myself. I could never have imagined that I would have lived in London, traveled all over the world, spoken all over the world in front of hundreds and thousands of people, written to books you know just everything. No clue. You have no clue. You know. You think, oh my God, everything is so small. But it's really really not. And so I think, yeah, all the places you'll go is the one thing I would say to that young girl. She had no clue, she had no idea where she would end up.
Max Chopovsky: 34:49
But some timeless Dr Seuss wisdom.
Sian Morson: 34:53
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, yeah. Thank you so much, Bye.
Max Chopovsky: 34:57
Do you know who else was in his head a lot, as he was taking public transportation in New York Is Lynn Manuel Miranda.
Sian Morson: 35:07
Ah yes yeah, yeah. Fun fact is the Miranda Foundation is actually an investor in Starfish.
Max Chopovsky: 35:14
No way.
Sian Morson: 35:15
Yeah, absolutely yeah, so it's a wonderful full circle moment there.
Max Chopovsky: 35:19
Oh my gosh. I reached out to his team to get him on the show because I'm ambitious like that, and I literally wrote him. I wrote this massive rap massive. It was like two pages long, really yeah and they just responded and they said that was a very creative note, but Lynn Manuel is too busy with his production schedule. I was like damn, oh man so good though.
Sian Morson: 35:42
Wow, I'd love to read that.
Max Chopovsky: 35:45
All of a sudden, it's no problem. Yeah, all of a sudden it's when we get off.
Sian Morson: 35:48
I mean, I remember where I was when I first heard the soundtrack to Hamilton and I was just like my mind was completely blown, just completely blown. Just how do you take a story like that and turn it into like hip hop? But then, when you really listen to it, this guy was a student of hip hop. Like, without a doubt, the way that he crafted those, the storytelling was just brilliant, completely brilliant.
Max Chopovsky: 36:18
The fact that he's doing. You can divide Disney movies into the before Lynn Manuel era and the after Lynn Manuel era, because everything from like the Maui's rap and Moana to all of the actual songs and chord progressions in Kanto.
Sian Morson: 36:39
Oh, uh-huh.
Max Chopovsky: 36:40
Like all of that. I remember there was one time he was on stage presenting at one of the award shows and he was introducing something about Moana and he said this line that was something like with her eyes on the horizon line, and I was just like that's just incredible. Like he repeats the same two or three syllables across multiple words and it all makes sense. It was just don't get me started on it.
Sian Morson: 37:09
Well, we'll have to have a whole separate conversation about, about Emmanuel and his brilliance.
Max Chopovsky: 37:14
That'll have to happen. Yeah, he's another guy who's going to leave a legacy that will long, long outlive him.
Sian Morson: 37:20
Long outlive him Can you imagine, without a doubt.
Max Chopovsky: 37:25
Well, that does it Really. Wow, I know, flew by, didn't it?
Sian Morson: 37:32
It did fly by, yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 37:34
I think it's rare because a conversation where you are actually in the moment and you're actually engaged and the other person is actually engaged is that kind of rare conversation and makes the time fly by.
Sian Morson: 37:49
And I just want to say thank you. This is. It's such a brilliant idea for a podcast. I listened to tons and tons of podcasts and I'm actually recording my own now, but this is such a brilliant idea. It's really, really clever and so so smart. I love it. Love it, yeah.
Max Chopovsky: 38:06
I appreciate it, sean. Well, it was absolutely an honor to have you on the show. Sean Morson, entrepreneur, investor, thought leader, community builder, polymath of the highest caliber, thank you.
Sian Morson: 38:22
Thank you for having me, Max.
Max Chopovsky: 38:25
For show notes and more head over to MossPodorg. Find us on Apple Podcasts, spotify, wherever you get your podcast on. This was Moral of the Story. I'm Max Jupowski. Thank you for listening. Talk to you next time.